The Moral Debate of Pro Players Dating Fans

 



What’s up gamers, it’s a typical British rainy September day and as I sit writing this awaiting confirmation of my uni course, and enjoying hoodie season, I'm sat thinking about the moral debate of pro players dating fans. Having watched Excel Esports’ video on agree to disagree (which will be linked at the end of this blog) I'm wondering what the implications of dating a pro player having been a fan of them/their team and on the reverse, dating someone you know to be fan of yourself/your team are. Part of this whole debate in my mind at least, centres on the morality of it all, does it take advantage of either person? Could it be obsessive or some sort of fantasy daydream that gets skewed in reality? Is it a disaster waiting to happen or are there scenarios where it works out? So, without further ado, let’s hop into it and if you would like to experience the miserable British rain with me feel free to add a background track of some rain music while you read.

The topic of esports relationships as a whole is one that interests me (mainly from the angle of documentaries discussing the rules on the topic) but this also feels like a very precarious topic as I do not have the experience to discuss the lived reality (no y/n moments here); but seeing as I study sociology, I reckon I can cover the moral questions surrounding the topic instead. If anyone would like to help me with future articles about esports relationships and how they work then my DM on twitter is always open (@smolsh0rtie), and I’d love to chat! I’m always open to have conversations about esports and gaming (regardless of whether it is for an article or not) so feel free to hit me up if you want to chat! Damn that sounds bad XD.

Ok aside from that terrible phrasing, let’s quickly preface this article by saying there will not be coverage of rumoured relationships and / or private lives in terms of sex lives, personal opinions on esports couples etc. I really don’t feel that is appropriate as this article is purely to discuss the moral debate of pro players dating fans, where the line is drawn, social acceptance of pro players having romantic relationships to begin with – especially how different regions respond to this and so on and so forth. And not the rumours that may exist around pro players and their life decisions outside of the rift/studio – yes we’ve probably all heard some sort of rumourings but those will not be discussed here – it’s not appropriate, respectful or necessary. Nor am I particularly interested in rumours either – if you are, this isn’t the blog for you, feel free to skip to a different one.

Firstly, to offer some context before we get into the wider discussion of pros dating fans, we need to first take a look at the background of many esports relationships, the partners meet through, guess what, esports or gaming – some of the big examples that come to my mind specifically are in terms of content creators x pro player and are not relationships based on a fan x pro player. However, within this discussion, it is important to note that romantic relationships for esports pro players are not always widely accepted in any version of partner, whether that be with a fellow pro player, content creator or (you guessed it), fan. The reason this is being highlighted specifically before we get into the wider blog, is because as mentioned in previous articles, a documentary on the BBC called the Fight for First which follows Excel Esports (in 2020 – link at end of the blog), makes a point to note that romantic relationships are sometimes looked down on within the industry among pro players – and this adds to the morally grey area of romantic relationships in professional esports as a wider whole. This particular debate on romantic relationships in esports centres on the potential ‘distraction’ of having a significant other while playing professionally and within this, a conflict of interest. Whether you may agree with this point or not, it is worth considering how long term serious relationships have been received within the LEC and LCS specifically, I’m sure plenty of examples come to all of our minds of the harassment faced by pros and their significant others from Worlds 2021 and the LEC summer split of 2021.

Ok, so now we have discussed the background context to romantic relationships in esports let’s get into the main discussion of pro players dating fans. Another quick preface, date whoever the heck you feel like, as long as it’s legal and a healthy relationship, by no means is this blog an attempt of policing relationships or attempting to enforce one idea on the discussion. This blog is simply to explore the topic of pro players dating fans as the Excel Twitter post on the topic received mixed opinions and I thought it would be interesting to discuss the topic further, especially as I hadn’t seen many blogs or content discussing the topic.

So while I was brainstorming for this topic and had begun writing this, I asked my lovely friends over on Twitter what their opinions on pro players dating fans was via a poll – a similar poll to that of Excel Esports – but the results were interestingly quite different (as you can see from the poll results below). What interested me about the results (from my poll at least) was the 23% of people didn’t care, and as Excel’s poll didn’t include this option, I’d be interested to know how many people who took Excel’s poll didn’t care as well – as I'm a sociology student I have to state that my poll obviously wouldn’t have had the same number of participants as Excel’s but research is research and the results got me thinking nonetheless. Especially as I’ve recently been reading the translated version of Falling Into Your Smile which is a book turn tv show in China following a female player in an otherwise all male esports team – the reason this interested me, is mainly because within the first chapter the main character Tong Yao, likens dating an esports player as being ‘not that different from dating a famous movie star’ and this had me wondering if maybe that is why some may be uncomfortable with the idea of pro players dating their fans – because it is someone’s hero/idol/etc, dating them where there can be argued to be a power (influential power) difference, and because in general it would be a little weird to date a fan as a celebrity, but more on this later.


Excel Esport's Poll



My Poll @smolsh0rtie on twitter


Another part that struck me about the results from both polls was that more people than I had expected were completely fine and comfortable with the idea of pro players dating fans – I'm personally not against those relationships; but considering the reception of pro players having significant others, it was interesting that fans as a whole would be unbothered by the idea – and positive considering the hate that the fanbase has seen in the last year. The only question I have from this data of those who agreed it was totally fine/strongly agree, is whether they agreed to the theory of pro players dating fans being fine, and whether they would still feel comfortable with watching the theory play out into reality of their favourite pro player dating a fellow fan. The reason I wonder this, (no hate to anyone who said they were completely fine with it) is because there is an obvious difference between theory and concept into reality – but I’d like to hope the community would support a couple either way. And not feel the need to comment on how short they expect the relationship to last for – as I have seen people do on tiktok. I have seen many argue that if two people love each other then who cares, and as much as I like this viewpoint and seeing the positivity in the situation, there are still very vocal segments of the esports community who do care and make it their business to hurt those involved, which is why this whole discussion isn’t cut and dry.

Let’s take this out of the gaming context for a moment and insert it into a kpop context instead (for argument’s sake to give contrast), kpop companies have dating rules but the fallout of an idol dating a fan would always be much bigger than an idol dating a fellow idol/trainee, now let’s put that back into esports. I haven’t heard of orgs outright imposing bans on dating – though that doesn’t mean that such rules do not exist – but in the similar context of kpop idols dating, it would likely be easier for everyone involved to accept a pro player dating a content creator or someone behind the scenes in industry as opposed to a fan – because pro players dating fans will always raise more questions – just like an idol dating a fan would. There isn’t anything wrong with people falling in love, of course there isn’t, and I don’t think the esports community is cold hearted to not want to support two people genuinely in love, but you can definitely argue it would be an easier pill to swallow if the pro player is dating a content creator than someone who they meet on the basis of one half of the relationship being from the perspective of a fan.

Although this discussion on pro players dating (regardless of who the significant other is), for this blog at least is from a Western perspective – there is arguably quite large differences in how western audiences tend to react to the romantic relationships of pro players. Aforementioned, we can all think of some Western pro player relationships that weren’t fully accepted or were responded to negatively – through no fault of the couple – and this brings into focus the discussion point of how pro players dating fans may be responded to differently in other parts of the esports world. Especially, when you consider how Ambition (former Gen-G) and his wife’s expected child is being responded to, the same for Doinb (current LNG) and his wife’s expected child, not to mention how open CBLOL players can be about their relationships (take the example of Tinowns from LOUD LoL and pANcada from LOUD Valorant), versus how Western players have had their long term relationships/marriages responded to – there is a very clear difference. So here is a question to be considered that I don’t have the answer to but is worth bringing into this discourse anyway – would the response/reaction of a pro player dating a fan, differ from East to West as part of the esports world?

Continuing, let’s get into the discussion we are all here for, the moral debate of pro players dating fans. This blog will aim to cover three main discussion points – whether this dating scenario only causes more problems, obsessive fans, and dating for the personality rather than for the job title/playing ability/because they’re a fan/social status. As well as if there are scenarios where it actually works out. So, with all the context and perquisites out of the way, let’s get into it!

First up is the point of whether the dating scenario of fans and pro players being in a romantic relationship only creates more problems – personally not a fan of how negative this comes off even with the need to be a realist; while it may have a bad rep, to suggest there is only ever bad things that can come from the scenario where two people are supposed to be in love is quite frankly, depressing. But anyway, I said I can see positives (somewhat) so we’ll start with those – the main positive that comes to mind is that if the esports community (specifically Western audiences) could swallow the pill of a pro player dating a fan, we might finally see an end to the disgusting hate that Western pros have received for their significant others being at all present in the community. And that is honestly, long overdue from what transpired from summer split 2021 in the LEC. It would also mean being able to move forward in accepting pros have relationships and within that debunking the stigma around it as a wider whole. Unfortunately, those are a few of the only positives that came to mind from this particular scenario, and aside from a happy couple, there isn’t much more to say on the positive side of things. As you are probably expecting, there is a lot more on the negative side, after all every discussion is (at least) a two sided coin. The main problems of this scenario that came to mind relate to the nature of obsessive fans (more on this later), potentially giving fans the wrong idea and the idea of dating someone because they’re a pro player/fan rather than because of their personality (more on this later too). Honestly, the reasoning of potentially giving fans the wrong idea is due to the possibility of a y/n (your name) fanfic moment being bought into reality and extending beyond the realms of the rhetoric that the community is familiar with/what the community and industry knows how to deal with, creating unpredictable consequences. This might sound like a cop out/a stretch of a reason, and I suppose compared to the other reasons we’re going it to discuss, it is a little, but it is still worth considering that there is still a lot of uncharted ground within esports, and the scene in many ways is still adjusting to the idea of pro players having relationships without the addition of (the controversial) fantasy to reality of fans dating pro players. Furthermore, while pro players do not have to maintain an illusion of singleness, pro players dating fans can alter the boundaries that fans see with pro players and as this is very much unchartered territory, there would need to be questions on how to regulate that, so that boundaries aren’t crossed. Fundamentally, pro players dating fans is always the choice of the individual, and aforementioned, I don’t personally see huge inherent issues with it, nonetheless the particular discussion of a pro player dating a fan will be a moral debate and somewhat precarious for a while to come – especially while esports adjusts to the notion of pro players having significant others and it not conflicting with pro play or anything else.

Onto the next discussion point, let’s talk obsessive fans. The part of any fandom that none of us are in love with, and I'm sure we’ve all seen one or two that has had us visibly wincing and wishing it would stop. So, let’s talk obsessive fans and the moral debate of pro players dating fans. Obsessive fans covers quite a wide range of people, for this blog, let’s define obsessive fans as those who are obsessed to the extreme, and disturbingly persistent – always defending a player no matter what they do, how bad their actions e.g. xenophobic remarks, and aware of every single thing that pro does/posts, etc. apologies in advance if that isn’t how you define obsessive fans. A pro player dating an obsessive fan is arguably the most problematic element of the whole scenario of pro players dating fans, not to get into a yandere anime genre breakdown here, but if an obsessive fan is that obsessive, then how can it be checked they aren’t possessive too – possibly to the point of being yandere obsessive? There’s not really a way to check that, and that isn’t going to make the whole situation any easier of a pill to swallow for the community in accepting pro player romantic relationships – especially if the obsessive fan is known to be one in the esports community (and let’s be honest, there aren’t that many secrets in the esports community). Plus, the whole idea of obsessive fans makes the wider community uncomfortable, it feels unfathomable to estimate just how uncomfortable it would be for the pro player in question, to be the centre of that attention. There is of course the argument that your significant other should always be a fan of you and be cheering you on, while this is a lovely sentiment to apply in any relationship, it doesn’t apply in quite the same way to obsessive fans, because there is the debate of whether they’re a fan of the pro player and their stage/stream personality or them as a person, or them as purely the job of a pro player (more on this in the next paragraph). As I don’t wish to insult anyone’s intelligence I won’t go too deep into this point as I'm sure we all have our own feelings and understanding of just why obsessive fans dating pro players can be such a problematic part of the community and so controversial. Is there a positive side to this one? Not really. No positive outcomes from this particular scenario, really come to mind but if we are looking for an absolute positive, then the one positive you could take from this (and you could totally leave this) would be that pro players are willing to interact with all fans, from mild fan to obsessed.

Ok, final major debating point of this blog, dating because they’re a fan/pro player vs dating because they have fallen in love with the person. This isn’t a question that is anyone’s business to cast an answer for, especially not in regard to specific examples, however when discussing the moral debate of pro players dating fans, it is a necessary point to make. No examples will be used though for this point. Dating because of love is of course what we all want at the end of the day, and all those soppy love quotes will tell you love conquers all blah blah blah and social status, job, income, distance etc. don’t matter. It’s all a lovely sentiment – and as someone who reads romance from time to time, it is lovely – but that’s not what here to talk about. We all want to believe our favourite pro players are dating for love and happiness and that its’ the same for their significant others. But this blog wouldn’t be getting to the point if we only talked about happy endings and long lasting love that the whole community roots for. Another huge point of the pro players dating fans is the debate of whether both parties are dating the other for who they are in the esports world, be that pro player or fan. As Caedrel phrases it nicely in the Excel video, dating someone who is a fan is fine but there is always the question about ‘are they a fan of you as a person’ and furthermore dating them because they are a fan is a bit weird. This also comes back nicely to my earlier point of if a relationship based off one being a pro player and one being a fan (and that being the specific reason they are dating), is it potentially exploiting one or both partners? Exploiting in terms of taking advantage of the social status of the other for whatever benefit (I have no idea what benefit there is), simply put, it raises the question of if the relationship is a healthy one and loving of the personalities of the partners rather than just the stage personality or one characteristic that is seen most prominently. This also brings this blog back to the wholesome point of a significant other should be a fan of their partner, and arguably would be expected to be the biggest cheerleader of their partner if they are a pro player – and in this context, it is sweet and wholesome. Just not to the point of obsessive (but this can of course be used to discuss any relationship and not just one limited to this particular context). There will always be scenarios where people choose to be in relationships because of who the other person is, whether that be for social status, finances, a boost on solo queue or whatever, it’s something that will always exist – yes it’s morally grey, but humans aren’t perfect, and morals will always have several shades of grey rooted in there somewhere. Maybe people do want to date a pro player for the sake of dating a pro player and on the reverse maybe there are some pro players who want to date a fan of them or their team specifically – that’s up to them.

Final point of this blog now, (before we get onto potential solutions – solution based blog over here and a conclusion) are there scenarios where pro players and fans dating actually works out? This is a question I don’t have an answer to, and to be honest, unless pro players were unbelievably transparent about every partner they’ve ever had and how they met – which is not at all necessary, required, or wanted, there isn’t a way to answer this question. Maybe fans have dated pro players and it worked out and they’re living happily in their own little world, good for them. Maybe pro players dated a fan because they were a fan and it worked out (even if only for a short while), still good for them. It’s really not anyone’s business and this blog was never intended to dig into pro’s personal relationships or question them and with the (very real) potential controversy of the topic of pros dating fans, I can’t imagine it would be the first thing about a significant other that you would mention in a QnA session. And once again, it isn’t required. If it isn’t illegal or harming anyone then it isn’t really anyone’s business.

So solutions – if there are any – because all these blogs debating topics have to mention solutions, otherwise each of these blogs is nothing more than a glorified rant. Here’s the solution for this blog and every future blog relating to romantic relationships in esports – the esports community as a whole (and that includes all the little minorities who take issue and seem to enjoy ripping happy couples to shreds on all social medias) need to accept that romantic relationships in pro play aren’t evil. They’re not ‘distractions’ and it’s not wrong for pro players to have significant others. It’s a natural part of human life, and there are times where focusing on life outside of the game will take priority, and that is still ok. And does not require hate or judgement. Furthermore, fans are not owed insight into pro players’ relationships or personal lives as a wider whole and contrary to some peoples’ opinions, are not owed an explanation beyond what is offered by the player or the org. Not only is that hellishly disrespectful, it’s also a breach of privacy, and pro players, their significant others and everyone else involved, are human at the end of the day and deserve to be treated as such. The literal and simple solution to the whole debate of romantic relationships in pro play is to remember pro players are human, they’re not forbidden from having significant others and if those significant others are in the public eye (specifically) then treat them with respect. They’re human too. Social media is horrible enough for mental health without adding hateful people with nothing better to do, into the equation.

Onto the conclusion before we wrap this blog up, this was an interesting blog to write, from the poll, to Excel’s video, to questioning what I thought about topic as a whole and the major points in the moral debate of the matter in its full entirety. Very interesting. Having gotten this far, the conclusion drawn up is mainly that (like with any relationship) it’s dependant on the people involved, and if it’s a healthy, non harmful, legal relationship then well, who cares? Let people be happy. Everyone will always have opinions but its up to the people involved to do their thing, and it’s not really anyone else’s place to tell you what to do. So yes, case by case basis, and esports could definitely do with becoming more open and accepting that pro players will have romantic relationships and that isn’t the end of the world – and this doesn’t warrant hate on the couple.

Thanks for reading, hope you enjoyed it, see you on the next blog!

Byeeeeeeee ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ

 

 

Notable sources of information –

 

Excel Esports ‘is it ok to date a fan’ poll on Twitter –

https://twitter.com/EXCEL/status/1563446116984635395?t=RUGYQczTaCCy9l35lXsJOg&s=19

 

Excel Esports Agree to Disagree YouTube video –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXPbeTkfy5U

 

BBC Excel Esports Fight For First Episode 1 –

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p091lx83/fight-for-first-excel-esports-series-1-1-on-the-path-to-greatness

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